Montel & Trans issues; Duke father appears
by Matt | September 6th, 2007 |ANNOUNCEMENT: Join Matt, InterstateQ.com readers and other community members for a community discussion, forum and general time of learning on trans issues at Tate Street Coffeehouse in Greensboro, NC, 6:00pm, September 16, 2007. More info here.
Lee Chauncey, the Duke University father who caused quite a bit of a stir in the transgender community after he voiced concerns about the housing arrangements of a transgender student in the dorm of his daughter, appeared on the Montel Williams show yesterday in New York City.
Lee has commented much here at InterstateQ.com and clarified his concerns, offering what I think are some valid points of view. Not everyone agrees with him but he far from being the so-called bigot that many have painted him out to be.
I’m sure the Montel show will give us some great insights to the issue.
Lee tells us in a comment on the past Duke-trans issue post:
I just returned from New York. I was a guest on the Montel Williams show. Montel did a very good job of exploring this very issue. The show title is “TRANSGENDERED - TRAPPED IN THE WRONG BODY.” It explored some of the challenges faced by transgendered people. Montel was very sympathetic and pretty thorough.
I know some are going to criticize me for the appearance, even before the show airs. I encourage everyone who visits this site to watch the show. I went on the show with the experience of the beating I have taken on various websites and in the media. I was certain I was brought in to be the boogeyman. Many people told me that I would be subjected to attack. I thought it was an important topic and that I should appear. I put aside personal considerations and went. There was actually no hostility on the program for anyone there, including me. It was a calm discussion, devoid of the shrill name-calling, which is ubiquitous on the internet. I believe the show will provide a small advance in understanding for this very complicated issue. The air date has not been announced. I will post again when I know the air date.
I talked to Lee on the phone today. He is a nice guy and I’m glad he got the opportunity to discuss his concerns on Montel. I’ll be sure to post again when I hear of the air date.
Also, Lee and I - and possibly a few other folks - are goign to meet up for dinner sometime in October. I’m sure it will be a wonderful evening of civil and intelligent discussion and some friend and ally making.
ANNOUNCEMENT: Join Matt, InterstateQ.com readers and other community members for a community discussion, forum and general time of learning on trans issues at Tate Street Coffeehouse in Greensboro, NC, 6:00pm, September 16, 2007. More info here.
38 Responses to “Montel & Trans issues; Duke father appears”
Well theres proof the guy only cares for himself. I’m sorry Matt and to you Lee when you read this, but going on a freaking talk show invalidates any respect you may have had.
Please Lee do us all a favor and STFU.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
I have to say that I’m inclined to disagree with Beth. Unless and until I see the show in question myself, I’m inclined to withhold judgement. Not all talk shows are complete circuses. Sometimes, issues do get discussed in a serious manner.
On that note, does anyone have any information on when this particular show will be aired?
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Even if so, the fact that Lee has absolutely no understanding of the subject he is talking about, should be a sign that this is all a charade.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
The fact that he has absolutely no understanding of the suctject he is talking about? What exactly are you basing that claim on, Beth? A few comments exchanged on a previosu post? The fact that he holds views different from you? (Let’s be serious, people can study in quite some depth the same subject and come to different conclusions.) I’ve certainly seen no indication that you’ve spent much time discussing transgender issues with him? You’ve dismissed everything he has said about his background out of hand.
I think you’re letting your personal feelings on this matter cloud your reason. What’s more, I think you need to lay off the character assaults. Because quite frankly, you’re looking pretty guilty of the kind of knee-jerk reactions and prejudice you’re accusing Lee of.
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Let’s just say, I have a really good knack for reading people. That said, I “did” ask him. He then advised me he spoke Klingon and 2 other languages and has an associates degree. That he owned a porn store, and hung out with other transsexuals and their vaginas.
Bottom line is, this guy isn’t credible. He leaves no valid email address, and even uses his middle name to avoid a personal backlash. I find it ironic, how he has destroyed this one girls life, yet tries to protect his own.
Secondly Jarred, if you’ve heard the real story. The one coming out of the Dorm, you’d realize this is a bloody joke.
Personally I’d love to Hear what Sandili has to say on the whole thing. Perhaps since this is “her” life we’re talking about, maybe she’d like to comment on how she feels.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Beth, you get pretty excited on this topic. It is good that you have passion. You either fail or refuse to recognize the fact that you have consistently commented on topics without having all the facts.
This was the Montel show, not Springer. I would not have done Springer. I thought long and hard about the appearance. I negotiated with the producers right up to the last minute in the green room. I was absolutely intent on not allowing this to become a circus. Upon my insistance, the release contract was altered to remove language which would permit a circus atmosphere.
You continue to insist that I have no knowledge of the subject. I do. I still know nothing of your credentials, Beth. Who died and left you as the only expert on the subject.
You say you have lost respect for me for appearing on a talk show. You have, so far, shown none which could be lost.
Have you also lost respect for Susan, the former city manager from Florida, who lost her job when she transitioned from a man to a woman? Have you lost respect for Bill, who is transitioning from a woman to a man? Have you lost respect for Ashley, the 12 year old girl who has been transitioning from a boy for several years now? How about Bill’s and Ashley’s mothers who came on the show to share their pain and fears? Have you lost respect for Pauline Park, chair of New York Association for Gender Rights Advocacy (NYAGRA)? All these people were on the show, too. Should we all lose respect for them because of a talk show? If so, please, let me know now. It is going to take me a long time to lose respect for them and I need to start soon.
Or should we simply pretend to lose respect for the only person we can use as a whipping boy? That is a lot easier.
The fact is the show was very tasteful. It was very pro-LGBT. It will educate some, probably not those who already know it all.
My intent, in appearing on this show, was to increase education on the topic.
All should watch and learn what they can. Montel does a great show. This is one of his best.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
Beth,
I haven’t heard the “real story” either. I use the name “Lee” in everything I do. I have never posted a single word on this, or any other, site which I do not believe to be true. Your assertion that I am trying to hide is a little inconsistent with the fact that I have granted interviews and appeared on national TV.
For the record, but don’t tell anyone, OK:
NAME: RAYMOND LEROY CHAUNCEY, III
EMAIL: rlchauncey@aol.com
PHONE: (386) 209-1922
CITIES OF RESIDENCE: Live Oak,FL and Fayetteville, NC
But, please, please, I beg you, don’t tell a soul. I am trying to hide.
Since you are an intimate of the Craven Dorm, ask Sandili what she has to say. She is not bashful.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
Again… I’m talking about you and your appetite for stardom. You got what you wanted. You could have left it at that. For some reason you’ve chosen to continue the charade of ignorance, and parade it down Main street America.
So again. I ask you my dear friend Raymond, what does your daughter Sandili think of having her father slut himself out on TV? We’ve yet to hear how she feels on the situation?
What I’ve really got to wonder is what about all the transgender student still hidden among the female population who haven’t made a similar disclaimer (as this transgender individual) to the administration. We better get out the measuring tape and start measuring clitoris length. At what point, Junior do we call it a penis? At what point should we start moving these deformed individuals who are distracting your daughter who is just “do” darn perfect? Technically wouldn’t it be easier just to move her?
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Editor’s Note: Comment moderated. Please keep conversation and dicussion to the topic at hand, do not use ad hominem attacks against another person or their family members.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Let’s just say, I have a really good knack for reading people.
If you had stated that it was your belief that Lee had no understanding of the subject at hand, that would be an acceptable explanation. However, you instead chose to claim the statement as fact. In my book, defending a statement presented as fact is going to take a bit more than your “knack for reading people,” no matter how good it may be.
Secondly Jarred, if you’ve heard the real story. The one coming out of the Dorm, you’d realize this is a bloody joke.
By all means, share that story. In complete detail. Please also be sure to include sources for all the details and quotes. Let us have a clear view of the basis for your understanding.
But again, I’m calling for you to stop with the character assaults. Stick to the issue and the facts surrounding it.
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Beth.
One other note:
Thank you so much for publishing my daughter’s name. I will not stoop to that level and publish the name of the transgendered woman in question here. Neither of them has chosen to be a part of this.
Moving to a room with a private bath hardly destroys ones life. Again, Duke did that without any consideration of outside influences. I had nothing to do with it. If I had any intent of any malice toward this young lady. I would have gone into the same gutter with you and published her entire name. I haven’t. Under absolutely no circumstances will I ever.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
If that Makes you Feel better Lee, tell yourself that.
This story is about your daughter, and this transgender individual? How the heck you got involved, just amazes me?
But beside that point, most people complain, get their way, and then shut up. You’ve failed to adhere to that last part. That’s what I don’t get. If I complain about how my Mechanic fixed my brakes, and then he goes and fixes them correctly; I don’t go on National TV and talk about “brake jobs”.
You see if you would have stopped there, I would have said “Hey he’s an over-protective father, deluded by wanting to protect his daughter.” I understand “that”. I may not agree with it, but I understand that often as parents are “judgement” could be biased based on the love for our child. But… You went Wa-a-a-a-y past that… which questions your credibility, and begs for whats been set wrong to be set right again.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Jared,
Thank you for the sanity you bring. Beth has a shrill voice and makes a lot of noise. She could learn a lot from you. She mistakenly thinks that if you don’t see things exactly the way she does, you are disqualified to comment at all. She clearly is a friend of the unnamed girl. She feels personally attacked. I understand her rage. The fact is a civil voice will take her agenda much farther. Adversarial language and actions are certain to gain you one thing: Adversaries.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
“She mistakenly thinks that if you don’t see things exactly the way she does, you are disqualified to comment at all.”
Not at all. You can comment all you want. It’s when you mess with other peoples lives, based on “your” beliefs, I disqualify you.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Beth,
I asked Duke to correct this problem. They refused. I had to involve the media as a means to a proper end. People do it every day. The media are like sharks. When there is blood in the water they go into a frenzy. There is still blood in the Duke water from the Lacrosse Scandal. It didn’t take much to stir them up again. The only interview I did was with WTVD. That was set before Duke moved your friend. I did nothing after that to feed the media frenzy. I gave an honest account to WTVD, including that I was satisfied with Duke’s action. The horses were out of the barn. It did no good to close the door. Montel called me. I did not contact his show at all. He presented a show topic, to which I thought I could make a contribution. I exercised extreme caution to insure the topic was handled tastefully and fairly. Only, then did I agree to participate. Again, up until I walked out onto the stage, I negotiated for a fair and tasteful format. The show would have gone on with or without me. I am comfortable and satisfied with my appearance. I think it served your agenda well. I simply want everyone’s rights and feelings considered. I want Duke and other schools to formulate fair and reasonable policies, which take into consideration the law and the needs of EACH AND EVERY student.
Can you honestly say that you would turn down an appearance on Montel, or Oprah for that matter, if you were convinced it would help to make everything better for all concerned? …that it would expand awareness on this matter?
If you chose to watch the show you will see that I did nothing on the show which is inconsistent with exactly that.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
“Can you honestly say that you would turn down an appearance on Montel, or Oprah for that matter, if you were convinced it would help to make everything better for all concerned?”
Yes I can. I’ve turned down numerous documentaries, and television shows over the years because I felt they were aimed more towards “entertainment” then “educational”. Montel is definitely “entertainment.” So question arises, why did you do it? Was it the free airfare, and hotel? Or did you really think that you’re the savior of Transgender people everywhere? No really, Why?
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
I promise guys and gals, I’ll get to reading all the comments. I am at work but will be home soon.
By Matt Comer on Sep 6, 2007
Montel’s “entertainment” includes finding support groups and funding therapy to help at least one member of the discussion. This was done behind the scenes for the most part.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
Still didn’t answer the question! Why did you go?
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Actually, Beth, I’d argue that he already answered that question before you asked it. It would appear that you either missed it or are dissatisfied with it and demanding a different one.
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Too vague.
Editor’s Note: Comment moderated. Please keep conversation and dicussion to the topic at hand, do not use ad hominem attacks against another person or their family members.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Out of curiosity, Beth, is there anything Lee could say you wouldn’t respond to negatively? Or are you really as hell-bent on attacking him at every turn as you appear to be?
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Not Really.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Which question is that in answer to?
By Jarred on Sep 6, 2007
Let’s post some useful information why don’t we, while we gain control of our tempers.
Reading University (Transgender Policy):
Transgendered students have the right to toilet and washing facilities that are appropriate to their gender. It is entirely inappropriate for transsexual women to use male toilets. It is embarrassing, demeaning and psychologically damaging. Transsexual women are women and for them to use male toilets is discriminatory. The same applies in the reverse situation.
Harvard:
May 13 - Harvard’s student council overwhelmingly approved a measure to… …allow “gender variant” students to use whichever multiple-occupancy restroom they deem appropriate. The proposal passed by a vote of 32-3…
In The Job Place (but related):
Society for Human Resource Management:
“The simplest answers are the easiest. We don’t have a lot of complicated rules and expectations. Simplicity is good: we don’t discriminate, we cover medically necessary procedures, use the bathroom that matches how you present . . . . It just works.”
Lucent Technologies recommends the following:
At this time, Lucent recommends that transgendered employees use the restroom for the gender they are presenting.
Legally, the Supreme Court has decided the issue in Cruzan vs Davis, which would supersede state law. So technically, what Duke did was illegal, and I hope to god a pro-bono lawyer challenges the crap out of this.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Lee, Thank you for stopping by and sharing your perspective with us here, it adds a dimension to this story we didn’t have before.
Beth, Thank you for your passion. This country needs people who care about things. You’ve challenged Lee to refine his messaging and clarify his points. And you’ve challenged him to expose his motives. Important questions indeed.
Jarred, Way to attempt moderation in a potentially heated topic!
I do have a few questions:
Beth, despite Lee’s past complaints against the Duke student, is there a way we can come together towards reconciliation so that rather than making this a war of words we can make it an opportunity to grow and progress?
Lee, if a student was uncomfortable sharing a living space with a gay student, should the gay student be moved to accommodate this? What about a student uncomfortable with a floormate’s skin color, ethnicity, or religion?
I’m glad to see that people are talking about things that are really important.
By Brian on Sep 6, 2007
Correction: (Federal not Supreme)
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
“despite Lee’s past complaints against the Duke student, is there a way we can come together towards reconciliation so that rather than making this a war of words we can make it an opportunity to grow and progress?”
No. You can’t discuss a subject with someone who knows nothing about it.
By beth on Sep 6, 2007
Beth… Gotta love your passion.
Lee… Thanks for sticking around.
Jarred… I echo InterstateQ.com contributor Brian’s thoughts… thanks for the moderation.
Brian… Thanks for your thoughts and moderation as well.
By Matt on Sep 6, 2007
To answer everyone:
Beth, The hotel room and flight were a temporary thing. However, Jet Blue gives away these really neat, cheap, plastic, stereo headsets. You get to keep those forever. That is why I went. It was for the headset.
The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a Minnesota law covered TG use of restrooms. We are in NC, where the law is different. I do not speak for or against the laws in NC. I just point out their bearing on this situation. Duke must work within these laws and forumulate policy addressing the rights of all students.
Paris Hilton failed to pay her storage bill. As in my case, it was not due to inability. Her storage facility contained the infamous porn tape. Mine had some lumber, a small refrigerator and a few miscellaneous other items of no significance. I chose to abandon them.
Why I have dual residency is frankly a personal matter.
I have noticed one thing over the years. People who are ineffective at making an argument often result to personal attacks on the person, with whom they are arguing. I have never gone after the person of any person involved here. That is a low and dispicable tactic. One should expect more from an educated, intelligent person.
Beth, you have failed to see in all the discussion we have had, that I support the struggles of TG persons. I strongly simpathize with them. I disagree with you on some things. One is this dorm situation. My view, is that in the dorm, inadvertant exposure would occasionally happen. My outrage was not because the TG student had access to the women’s facilities. It was due to the way it happened. The other students were told that a person, undergoing gender reassignment, would be using their facilities. They weren’t consulted. Some had no idea what the statement meant. If they saw male genetalia, inadvertantly exposed to them, it would have been no different than that the would encounter on a male. My view is that is inappropriate. Yours obviously differs. We may simply have to agree to disagree here. When the move was announced to the students on the floor, they were told that unfortunately the state did not recognize that there were actually three sexes. Well, Duke doesn’t either. They have facilities for only two. Facilities for three would be a compromise, which the law would permit. We have to find some middle ground here. The law doesn’t recognize the problem exists. It is not going to go away. More TG persons come out every day. I want to try to find a solution everyone can live with. Your personal attacks will not change my resolve. I suspect if I should change the world to your perfect image of it tomorrow, you would still find fault in me. That is unfortunate.
Brian, religion, ethnicity, race and orientation are matters the law currently addresses. If someone has a problem with those areas, then it is their problem and not society’s. The reality is that the law in this state puts us in a position to have to find solutions for TG persons, and or to change the law.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 6, 2007
Beth, one other thing. I have to reiterate that I discussed this ISSUE on Montel. I didn’t discuss any identifiable person. You chose to attach negative information to my person. If I had done something like that you would have every right to expose whatever dirt you want on me. The only time I have ever identified any information about any individual, it has been on me, and at your request. Why do I not give addresses and phone numbers you deem appropriate? I don’t see yours or anyone else’s complete resume’ on here. But, if you want to list mine, go ahead. Please, make an effort to include some of the positive if you can. If you can’t find any, contact me. I will point you toward some. I can’t, for the life of me, understand why you personally attack someone, who is tangibly on your side. This is mind boggling.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 7, 2007
My complete resume is on here, lol, just kidding
By Matt on Sep 7, 2007
Pretty impressive resume’, Matt.
By Lee Chauncey on Sep 7, 2007
Most people know who I am. If they don’t they easily can.
While you’d love to skew reality in your favor, I merely was proving a point to which you seem to concede to. We all have personal issues. Some of which are nobodies business.
Now Yes, I’ll admit that this individual made a mistake. She openly announced her anatomy. I would not advise one to do so. The reason Gender discrimination is illegal is because I can’t go up to your daughter, you, or anyone else and say hey “show me what you got in your pants” or I won’t believe your a woman (or man.)
That’s why it’s illegal. If this individual wouldn’t have said anything, then you could only speculate. I admit, job well done Lee, you exploited a young woman with the media.
Maybe you haven’t gone on to think what may come of this. One you’ve made any Gender variant people at Duke who might be living “undercover” fairly uncomfortable and scared. You’ve outed this “individual”, maybe not by name, but by character on campus. That opens her up for ridicule, physical abuse, or worst. Most individuals who’ve gone through what you’ve put her through end up dropping out of school, because of the social pressure.
On another note, you argue the law I state isn’t valid. Yours makes no damn sense since by your technicality a kid who splits the crotch of his pants would violate law. You pretend your promoting transgender rights, and state “oh if only the law was different.”
So if the law was different? You’d be Okay with it?
Of course not, because your a bigot, and a hypocritical voyeurist who gets his kicks off pretending how big and bad daddy is. Is it all a show, just to prove your masculinity when yours has been threatened by your wife?
I’m not name calling, I just suggesting some mild therapy might be necessary for you to deal with your feelings, rather then crucifying some transgender individual to confront your mid-life crisis.
By beth on Sep 7, 2007
Editor’s Note: Comment moderated. Please keep conversation and dicussion to the topic at hand, do not use ad hominem attacks against another person or their family members.
By beth on Sep 7, 2007
Editor’s Note: Comment moderated. Please keep conversation and dicussion to the topic at hand, do not use ad hominem attacks against another person or their family members.
By beth on Sep 7, 2007
Okay guys and gals… I hate to do this, but the back and forth is becoming a little nasty. For the sake of everyone’s sanity and well-being, I’m closing comments.
My inbox is always open to you all: matt ‘at’ interstateq ‘dot’ com
By Matt on Sep 7, 2007