“Blogger wars” are usual around the blogosphere, you know. Two bloggers get into some sort of disagreement. Most of the time the “war” is childish and immature; some drama flamed by the human disconnect our wonderful internet age has fueled. But there are occassions when these “blogger wars” flame up for legitimate reasons: Like when a blogger doesn’t provide any sort of verification or evidence of the claims she’s making online.
Photo right: YouTube screencap of one young lady involved in the Castro scuffle.
I spent some time yesterday going back and forth with religious blogger Marcus French, the editor of Voice of Revolution (the blog of Dr. Michael Brown — one of the Charlotte’s most outspoken anti-gay advocates).
At issue was a story he posted about a conflict between residents of the Castro in San Francisco and members of a Christian street team. In it, Marcus included this outrageous claim:
Violence and verbal abuse weren’t the only things they had to endure however, as perverse acts of molestation also took place. According to one of the victims, individuals in the crowd touched and grabbed them, tried to remove their pants, and even made attempts to penetrate them anally with foreign objects.
No links to original sources. No links to verifiable, reputable news sources. No links to anything. Just a story. You might understand why I immediately needed verification.
I spent a large amount of time trying to speak with colleagues who might know something about this. I searched the ‘net. After a while, I’d yet to find anything to back of Marcus’ claims.
Finally, Marcus pulled through with personal accounts of the night that I’d yet to see myself.
Let me say a couple things before proceeding: (1) I know Dr. Michael Brown and his ministry well; We’ve had our disagreements and contentious interactions. (2) I also know Marcus; I’ve eaten lunch with him and find him to be a truly humble man.
BUT… It is hard for me or any other LGBT person to believe their claims in stories like these. After all, they aren’t our friends: Both are committed to keeping LGBT people unequal and in a system of second-class citizenship. Why would we believe any of their claims without something to back it up?
There are a few things to consider in this story about the Castro conflict:
1. Violence, of any sort, is completely and utterly wrong. I might be gay, and some radical fundamentalists might believe I don’t have the ability to see right and wrong, but I do. There is clearly a right and wrong in this world. Violence is wrong. Period. That’s why I hound Dr. Michael Brown on his violent, militant-like rhetoric. Violence. Wrong. (Have I said it enough, yet?)
2. We must… let me repeat, WE MUST … remember and take into account the reasons for the LGBT community’s extreme feelings of disappointment, anger, frustration, pain, hurt and so on. And, it just doesn’t effect people in California. For the FIRST TIME in the history of our nation a state has voted to rescind the civil rights of a minority by simple majority vote on a ballot initiative. To many this is an ultimate form of discrimination, and, yes, hate.
3. We must also remember how these now second-class gay citizens feel about the people they perceive as the ones who pushed through a ballot initiative to make them constitutionally inferior to other citizens. A commenter on Marcus’ blog hit it right on the nail:
It was a triumphalist and confrontational intrusion into a neighborhood that had seen its civil rights taken away by the actions of these very people. … Seriously, JHOP would do well to scrap their “vision” (which is based on an obsessive interest in people’s sexuality–I’ve read it) and get back to Matthew 25:31-46. In a country where (I heard today) that around 750K children are experiencing “food insecurity” (read: hunger), where millions of people are sucked into the justice system, and so on, these people are going to the Castro, where everyone has heard their message and reacted negatively to “God’s love” wrapped up in overt homophobia?
JHOP (Justice House of Prayer), the Christian street team in the Castro, itself admitted that their past Friday-night gatherings in the district had gone peacefully. What changed this time? Oh, yeah… that pesky little thing called hate — the reason why discrimination was enshrined in the constitution.
4. JHOP members didn’t press charges. I understand the faith-inspired reason not to, but they should have. If the conflict was as bad as they now claim — including claims of “molestation” — charges should have been pressed immediately. There might be divine justice, but there’s also earthly justice and God Himself has said there is a time and place for earthly justice.
5. On the claims of molestation: While I appreciate Marcus’ follow-up with personal testimony of the night’s events, and while I’ve already admitted several times that I believe the conflict got out-of-hand, this molestation claim remains one of the most outrageous claims I’ve ever heard. Public molestation? Really? I’m not saying it didn’t happen; I’m just doubting it, along with all the other more extreme portions of JHOP’s story. Where’s the evidence that anyone went to the hospital? I’m sorry, folks, but if “boiling hot” coffee is poured on you and if it was as violent as you claim, you really need to go to the hospital and get things checked out.
There’s so many holes in this story. So little evidence to back it up. It was such a public event and no one knows anything about this violence or “molestation”? Something’s wrong.
And, in conclusion, let’s remember the countless hundreds of other protests and gatherings against Prop. 8 and other anti-gay ballot initiatives that have been completely non-violent. Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh, Asheville, Columbia, Greenville (NC), Boone, Charleston, Wilmington and so, so, so many more across the entire country. This violence is the extreme minority; the exception to the rule.
And while I’m here to condemn it and tell those members of LGBT community to get its act together, I’m not willing to ignore the reasons why their feelings of anger exist. There’s a reason for everything. This time, it was a failure of American principles that’s caused it.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Thank you so much for posting a perhaps no less biased but certainly more truthful version of events - or our lack of knowledge thereof. It is greatly appreciated.
That JHOP is a religious organisation specifically stating their attitudes toward the LGBT community should indicate to them that going to Castro is far from a wise decision so shortly after the passing of not only prop 8 but also 2 in Florida and 102 in Arizona.
While I find it likely that things did get at least somewhat violent, I expect that many of the claims were exaggerated, particularly as to sexual assault. “Trying to pull my pants off” could just be clutching at the person’s clothing, trying to get them out of the neighbourhood. Not acceptable, perhaps, but not sexual molestation. Attempts at “insertion of foreign devices into the protestor’s anuses” is likely the crowd jostling them and beer bottles in hand from the bars, etc. While it could, of course, have escalated to such a degree, and may have, most people know better than to do such blatantly illegal things when trying to fight for their cause - it just gives them a bad name.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Thanks for your comment Jessica. Yes, this is post is probably just as biased as the writings at Voice of Revolution. At least now we have a viewpoint from the other side of the issue.
What I find most important to remember in this entire aftermath of Prop. 8 is that there is and will continue to be a lot of anger, frustration and pain.
As the previously mentioned commenter from Voice of Revolution said:
[Emphasis mine.]
November 19th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Official statement just released from the JHOP team: http://voiceofrevolution.askdrbrown.org/2008/11/19/kingdoms-in-conflict-official-statement-from-jhop/
November 19th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Plenty to be said about all this, but I wanted to pick up on one thing in particular, echoing your statement that if this group wanted to make accusations they should have pressed charges. Part of the reason why we have trials, courts, juries and a legal system at all is so that those who are accused of a crime have a chance to defend themselves and prove their innocence, and so that those who make the accusations have to bring evidence to back up their claims. By refusing to press charges, JHOP is forum-shopping, choosing to try this event in the court of public opinion, a court whose rules of evidence boil down to “whatever we can imagine” - which, when we’re talking about a traditionally hated and misunderstood minority that often suffers from appalling stereotypes, can become truly frightening. This isn’t about forgiveness or graciousness by JHOP - it’s about strategy and claiming the higher ground without having to earn it, plain and simple. That it’s done under the fig leaf of Christian mercy makes it all the more hypocritical.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
After reading the JHOP official statement, I’m particularly struck by one thing. This statement is crafted, framed to echo the Genesis story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It’s classic dog-whistle politics - most secular individuals won’t pick up on it, but a certain segment of religious communities will read this story and, consciously or unconsciously, be reminded of the plight of Lot and his family whose guests were threatened with sexual assault by the sinful people of the city.
The ‘quotes’ cited in the statement, “we should grab their butts,” in particular, are so awkward and strange that they only make sense when you realize that the author is trying to fit a pre-existing narrative, one with particular power to his or her desired audience. This isn’t necessarily to say that the alleged victims are lying, but rather to highlight the lens through which they perceived their experience. JHOP walked into the Castro believing it to be Sodom incarnate, and when confronted, they perceived and described their experience accordingly.
Add to that the martyr complex so common among these groups (and made explicit at the end of their statement) where they actively WANT to suffer for their gospel, and we should be anything but surprised to hear such claims. One more reason why, until we have concrete evidence, all of these claims should be viewed with a significant degree of skepticism.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I ended up making a judgment call, based on the account of the team member, as well as prior knowledge of the ministry’s integrity, that the JHOP people had in fact been verbally, physically, and sexually assaulted, thus those things are stated as fact in the article (and JHOP’s official report confirms that they happened). With regard to a few of the specific and controversial acts that could have been misinterpreted or misidentified by the JHOP members, I was careful to say “according to one of the victims” or “according to some at the scene”, rather than stating them as fact. Thus I still stand by the story we wrote.
In retrospect however, I should have checked to make sure that the account on YouTube was the same exact one I had received, and I should have subsequently let people know in my article that the account I was going off of was from a JHOP member who was at the scene, and that people could look at the account for themselves at the Free Republic link. It was simply an oversight on my part, and I’ll do better in the future with regard to documenting my sources.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Marcus… I doubt any minds will be changed. The accounts are so outrageous people will make their own conclusions.
However, I applaud your willingness to, in the future, make your sources clearer.
You and Dr. Brown and I know all too well about sources — sometimes they turn out to be wrong.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Casey,
I think you make an excellent point when you say that it would have been better for JHOP to press charges if they were going to go public with the story, if only to have an impartial judgment on what actually happened. Ideally, I think, one would either press charges and make it public, or not press charges and keep it private.
I can also understand though, in the heat of the moment, not pressing charges for the sake of showing love and forgiveness, then later realizing that the story was important and needed to be made public.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Casey’s going to make an excellent lawyer some day. Ain’t that right, Marcus?
November 19th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
[insert lawyer joke here]
November 20th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Hehe, thanks Matt - and this future lawyer says that if you’re referring to somebody as a victim when you relate their story, you are indeed accepting and articulating their claims as reality. Saying it was the statement of somebody who claimed to be at the scene would be better. Just for future reference.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Free legal advice. Awesome. This is going to continue after you get your degree right?
November 20th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I finished reading the story as posted by Marcus and it sounds too much like…bad pulp fiction. I know people are angry and a few have done/committed violent things; but, the ones I’ve read have been against buildings, cars, fences, and so on. Not people. I just didn’t believe the story as written. But, Matt and Marcus, thanks for allowing us readers to be involved with GLBT events around this country. Appreciate it.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Thanks juanito. I found Casey’s comments on the subject particularly enlightening. Wish I’d thought of some it myself, lol.